For something like this I would recommend getting another glass piece from a head shop or some other place where they sell them so that you dont have a lot of money invested in one pipe. I would forgo inserting it from the inside and go the other direction. The finished look of the stem and band with the bowl was quite nicemaybe there was something redeemable about the bowl after all. We're one of the original, longest-standing \u0026 established American glassblowing brands around, crafting high quality, hand blown glass glass pipes, bongs, rigs, bubblers, pendants \u0026 more coming out of Chatsworth, Los Angeles, California.Check out all of our creations on our website: https://PurrSmoking.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/purrglass/Snapchat: @purrglassFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/purrglassTwitter: https://www.twitter.com/purrglass This is a good precaution for any glass piece with an exposed hole in which you can stick fingers (like bowls). Otherwise, leave the broken pieces together. It is not beautiful or worthy of keeping. Spread a small amount of PVC primer around the small end of the slip fitting . PIPES FROM VARIOUS MAKERS CZECH, BELGIAN, GERMAN, HUNGARIAN, ISRAELI, SPANISH PIPEMAKERS ALONG WITH METAL PIPES, Cleaning up a Dunhill Root Briar 21033 Made in England 18 Taper Stem Billiard, Cleaning up a Dunhill Root Briar 4R 587 F/T Stack Made in England 9, Cleaning up a Dunhill Root Briar 4R OX F/T Bulldog Made in England 6, Can this one be brought back to life? DIY TUTORIAL HOW TO REPAIR/ FIX A BROKEN/ CRACKED GLASS PIPE/ BOWL/ SLIDE/ STEM. However, some of the most common glues used for this purpose are: Glue gun: This type of glue can be applied with a brush or by pressing it onto the surface to be glued. You can tell because it has black spots in the glass around the edges from use, and they have not been smoothed out like on zoomed bowls which is clear or sometimes blue. I like to have a smooth surface under the band rather than a rusticated pattern. Whether you use putty or a pipe patch will depend on how permanent you want to the solution to be. Its a common occurrence and can happen with any type of pipes, not just bowls made from glass. 7 Steps To Follow: How to Fix a Broken Glass Pipe Bowl Step One: Clean the Area Before beginning the process of how to fix a broken glass pipe bowl, you need to clean it out. Deane Biermeier is an expert contractor with nearly 30 years of experience in all types of home repair, maintenance, and remodeling. The difference in this one was the solidness of the briar around the hole. In fact I put off working on it as it just did not appeal to me. You can find it in your local hardware store or online if you have trouble locating the proper one. 4. Once heated, put both pieces together (new one face-up) with your pliers or fingers and twist them in opposite directions until they click into place. Pipe Manufacturer & Retailer Spotlight | With the externals repaired and finished it was time to make up some pipe mud to coat the bottom of the bowl and give a protective coat over the bowl plug. One method is as follows (as taught by Mr. Anderson in 7th grade electric shop class for drilling a glass bottle for a lamp project). I stained it with a dark brown aniline stain and then also gave the bottom of the bowl a second coat with black stain to emulate the effect of the stain coat on the rest of the bowl (Photos 2 and 3 below). I shaped the briar plug with a Dremel and sanding drum. As long as the blade remains flush with the surface of the glass, the epoxy will remain at that level, too. This is fairly self-explanatory. Pipe Refurbishing Links for Quick Reference, PIPES MADE BY AMERICAN (US) PIPEMAKERS AND PIPE MAKING COMPANIES, PIPES MADE BY DANISH PIPEMAKING COMPANIES, CERAMIC & MEERSCHAUM PIPES CALABASHES, SMOOTH & FIGURALS. So, cleaning the glass is vital. If your craft looks good enough, then replace the metal screen attachment just like you would a normal glass tube on its own. I buffed it with red Tripoli and White Diamond to raise a shine and then gave it several coats of carnauba wax on the buffer. In the first photo below you can see what the hole looked like after I had cleaned it up with a pick and Everclear. The bowl of the pipe then shatters, and most likely, there will be shards of glass in the tobacco or marijuana that was being smoked at the time. But the glaring problem is visible in the photo below a large, inch diameter burnout on the flat bottom of the pipe. It can be used to repair broken glasses, as well as seal small cuts in your skin. No shit man, and if u backload it then all your shit gets in the stem.. How thick is the briar where the hole is? I sanded the tenon to get a good tight fit on the stem and then sanded the stem to get a good fit against the shank and band. |Forums Cracked phone or tablet glass can be repaired to a limited degree. For example, let us know that your 14mm male joint broke on your dab rig and that you want it to be repaired with a 14mm female joint. if u set on counter and fill bottom with wax then clean and epoxy entire bottom with that goo the others recomended. You are using an out of date browser. Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. I would insert it from the outside in. 3. However, if you are traveling and need a quick fix or something like that, using glue would be better than nothing! I trimmed it with a hack saw to reduce the size of the plug. This should make the edges more malleable so that you can mold them to your liking and fit into place. How to Repair a Glass Pipe (Fix a Blown Hammer Bubbler) || On the Torch S1E26 || 77,640 views Mar 1, 2014 496 Dislike Revere Glass 72.9K subscribers Notice Age-restricted video (based on. Take a really small screwdriver that can fit in the hole already and put it in. Take off any removable parts such as hydro tubes and mouthpieces to easily access the bowl. If the hole was made by a projectile, like a BB, the entry hole will be bigger than the exit hole, so you'll want to tape over the exit hole and fill the entry hole. & Conditions | DMCA Once youve got the right stuff, generously coat both sides of where the break was with plenty of silicone sealant and allow it to dry fully before touching again. Use a metal file to smooth any sharp edges that might cut through the patch. He is a certified lead carpenter and also holds a certification from the EPA. For this repair job not to break again, we need something strong enough and flexible enough to hold it all together. Nvm i think i just fucked up by melting it perfect.lol, ahhh I hate them pipes the hole is too small to pack. Put a few drops of dish detergent on a sponge and wipe down the glass on both sides to remove fingerprints, oils, and dirt. Glass West: Can You Repair Glass Windows. Pull carefully; you don't want the tape to pull the filler out of the hole. Us |Contact The pipe below is exactly that kind of pipe. Glass repair will only work on single pane glass. If you are trying to melt the glass back together, you will need a metal object like a fork or spoon and use that to stir it to break up the pieces of glass. Its an epoxy that seems to works great on glass. I already put a hole in my baby, in 3 short months. To clean out any residue that may have led to your pipe cracking, soak a cotton swab in rubbing alcohol and rub it around the inside of the pipe. Find out how well your replacement part fits before you take the solvent off so you know what needs to be sanded down after removing the debris and residue left behind by the solvent. Yes. It depends how thick the glass is but I did this for my mini bowl which has pretty thin glass in the bowl area. When you visit the site, Dotdash Meredith and its partners may store or retrieve information on your browser, mostly in the form of cookies. I was not worried about the rustication as I would duplicate that after I finished working the plug into place. But with experience, they can likely repair the glass and make it less noticeable (though still not invisible). i started putting it in the freezer rapped in a towel. You May Read Also How to Fix Hairline Crack in Glass Pipe. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Let the glass thoroughly dry. Plus, it will smooth over the crack and reduce sharp ridges. Do not drop your pipe on the floor or other hard surfaces. I sacrificed a nice little Cohiba Cuban cigar for the purpose of making the mud of the ash. Lol this was funnyI had a partner who used to be soooo paranoid on IV coke. Snap off or cut off the ends of both of the two-part epoxy cylinders. Tighten the clamps to seal the leak. I mixed the ash with a small amount of water to make a paste. If you smoke while walking, your bowl could fall out and break. Before beginning the process of how to fix a broken glass pipe bowl, you need to clean it out. Though the crack will be visible, the fix will prevent the glass from falling out and will stop a crack from lengthening. I coated the plug with superglue gel which gives me a bit more time before it sets and pushed it into the drilled hole. Dunhill Amber Root 3103 Billiard, Cleaning up a Dunhill Root Briar 21033 Made in England 18 Taper StemBilliard, Cleaning up a Dunhill Root Briar 4R 587 F/T Stack Made in England9, Cleaning up a Dunhill Root Briar 4R OX F/T Bulldog Made in England6, Can this one be brought back to life? I inserted a pipe cleaner into the airway and then applied it to the bottom of the bowl, tamping it into the crevices around the plug and building up the bowl bottom. The hole is perfectly round and looks like it was done with a 1/16 inch drill bit? Local glass blowers my be able to batch her up? I heated the stem with a heat gun to straighten it and then rebent it over a rolling-pin to give it a slight bend. Is there a way i can still make clouds with a 2holed pipe,or just charge it to the game? Silicone sucks at repairing broken glass pieces, though it would help with water-tightness. Around here they range in price from about 3 to 5 dollars, so when they shatter (which they always do eventually) you just go out and get another one. The next series of photos show the progress of the shaping. When the mud had dried to touch I buffed the pipe a final time with White Diamond and then gave the entire pipe several coats of carnauba wax to protect and give it a shine. Hahaha, If you have a small oxy \ acetylene or even a propane torch, you can flatten the side and roll the malleable glass on a I. Meth pipes aren't even worth fixing. Yep pipe mud would be the way to go. It seemed no matter how I shaped it however, it would not fit in the bowl bottom as the burnout was not centered in the bowl bottom. I know that people will use "mud" to make the repair, can someone share details. The crack can be fixed relatively easily with some epoxy, but its not a job for the inexperienced. You will need a heat source like a blow dryer to soften the surface of the glass and then use silicone caulk or a silicone adhesive to seal the crack. To fix a broken pipe bowl, you will need metal epoxy glue, new screens or cotton balls/cotton pads (to prevent rusting), salt, and the device itself (obviously). Step 1 - Explain: Sometimes it feels like we're peering at a page of "Where's Waldo" when reviewing repair images, so it's best to clearly state what's broken and how you'd like it fixed. So There is epoxy all the wall from about the top point of the bowl down to the base and down the stem, sad. Put on a dust mask, safety glasses and work gloves. |Radio Show Neither will work on its own. Youve successfully fixed your broken pipe bowl with this handy guide! Pull on the small end of the slip fitting to extend it. A pinhole leak in a steel pipe can be fixed by using a sealant or a patch. With an assistant, lift the drywall into place. This will help when trying to figure out where everything goes back together later on. greenbrad420 for science! Access the area under the subfloor through the crawl space door. It's about 2in long by 3/4in height. Round impact cracks tend to repair best if they are no more than 1-inch diameter. I cant tell you how many times I picked the bowl up and carried it to the recycle bin (a bin I used for briar parts) and then carried it back to the to be refurbished box. If so, place a dab on your finger and gently press down into the glue to secure both sides together. The stain is a contrast stain a black undercoat in the grooves and a brown top coat. I would suggest combining the powers of both silicone and duct-tape, for a super-seal. Then, use a small brush and some water to clean up the area. Even a wood screw would work. I find it gives a good smooth fit to the band. I intend to keep and smoke this once it's repaired. [20] Use a file, sandpaper, or utility knife to clean off the insides and outsides of the cuts until the surfaces are smooth. No, but you can minimize the repair's visibility. I pressed it against the table top to get the plug in place solidly. Use a flashlight or work light to locate the area of the leak at a drainpipe . You may need to solder or glue some parts where needed, but this should not take too long as most breaks are straightforward and do not require much attention. Or buy a glass blowing torch. Its different than the one you use for smoking because it has holes in it to let air through so that all of your weed doesnt combust at once. I will let the pipe mud cure and harden for a few days before loading up the pipe and smoking the inaugural bowl. Work in a well-ventilated room. or you could get some silly putty or that sticky putty they use to tack things up on walls and put a layer of that over something decent that is roughly the same size as the botttom of your bong and press them together? However, avoid using it anywhere near the bowl of the pipe. By creating an account you agree to the Hunker. There are many types of glue that work best on glass. I sanded it with 220 grit sandpaper and then with a medium grit sanding sponge to clean up the oxidation and scratches on the vulcanite. It is a brandy glass shape and the shank actually has a flare to it as well. Two-part epoxy consists of a resin and a hardener. although the quiksteel can withstand high temperatures its not a good idea to put a direct flame on an I used a three part repair which consisted of pipe mud,JB weld and wood filler. Use a solvent such as isopropyl alcohol or acetone to remove all debris and residue from the broken pipe. Space the screws every 7 to 8 inches along the edges and every 12 inches in the field (or center area). If you do not clean your pipe regularly, the metal can rust and crumble in your hand when handled. As the pipe mud dried I added additional layers of mud to the bottom of the bowl and around the lower sides of the bowl. Short cracks can rapidly develop into long ones that spell the end of the entire glass item. Use a razor blade to scrape excess filler off the glass and to flatten the filler flush with the glass surface. The interior bowl sides were clean and solid. Fix the Pipe with Epoxy. then melt out the wax with hot water. This is easier to do before the material has completely hardened, but you should still be able to do it even if you wait too long. Simply heat up the metal screen with a blowtorch until its too hot to touch and reattach it in the same way as before. We have the perfect solution to fix your problem with ease and efficiency. Solvents like hot water and dish soap do not work but make things worse. Wipe down the glass with a clean, soft rag and let it air dry. Wrapping Up: This is an instructional post about how to fix a broken glass pipe bowl using some common household items, which can often help save money from having to buy a new one altogether while also being more environmentally friendly. Finally, Monday the challenge called me. The aim of do-it-yourself glass crack repair is to minimize the appearance of the crack and to contain the crack and prevent it from spreading. I'm actually starting to look forward to this project, thanks everyone. 2. I have done one other repair on a burn out which involved inserting a briar plug and this looked like it was another candidate for that repair. I have a few pieces of scrap briar that I have scavenged from pipe maker friends that I had put away for this kind of repair. I found a stem in my stem box that fit the shank quite well. These mesh patches provide an area to place epoxy across the hole of the plastic. This water leak solution is an effective temporary fix, useful for mid-winter leaks or putting off potentially extensive or expensive plumbing repair jobs. There is difference in bowl depth around the left edge. Epoxy is another quick and easy method. The restored pipe is pictured below. Us Get daily tips and tricks for making your best home. Once it was sanded smooth, I heated a band over a heat gun and then pressed it into place. buuuut the epoxy is ACTUALLY through the bowl piece. There are many ways to fix it, and we will show you how! Yes. If there are none, you can now replace the pipe with its cap in place (make sure it is securely tightened). Your piece may be prone to even greater breakage, which is why we still recommend either getting a repair, or replacing the piece as a whole. jb weld might add some flavor. Lay clean cardboard on the work area. This syringe regulates the flow of resin and hardener so that they remain within the correct proportion. These methods should help repair any cracks in your glass pipes for years to come! This is only possible if there is an intact glass section that protrudes higher than the crack and which will be able to hold in place while being heated up with a blowtorch. it felt smooth at first till it warmed back up. So I found one that had enough briar left that I could carve it into a plug for the bottom of the bowl. The next series of three photos show the progressive build up of the mud in the bottom of the bowl. JavaScript is disabled. As I looked at it, the shape kind of grew on me. 2 Sand down the edges of your broken pieces, you want both pieces to be smooth and flat, so they fit together nicely. I mean maybe you could use a small piece of credit card or something similar and PC7 over the whole thing and get it to seal. I wet sanded with 1500-2400 grit pads and dry sanded with 3200-12,000 grit sanding pads. There are many times I take on the challenge of repairing a pipe totally for the learning experience. Step Two - Cutting a New Hole in Your Pipe If you use two-part epoxy glue, mix the parts on a spare piece of cardboard using a toothpick. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. :D. A valve on the bowl's bottom is supposed to regulate the air stream. This article will discuss how to fix a broken glass pipe bowl, so you never have to worry about it again! Check out our video on how to request a repair from us:https://youtu.be/H3dyQlDFjdw___About Purr Glass:Purr is family owned \u0026 a small, tight-knit team with a passion for glassblowing. Leave a little extra room on the fiberglass gives you a little wiggle room and helps ensure the hole is fully covered. If theres a gap where one finger should be touching the other, but cannot because of some sort of obstruction like dirt or grime in between them, then it is most likely broken. If you have a small oxy \ acetylene or even a propane torch, you can flatten the side and roll the malleable glass on a I Cold metal surface- you will have to anneal it again, which will be the hard part (minimum 650-900F) All in all, not worth it. Please be careful as broken glass is sharp, and acetone vapours are. I liked the finished look of the band. D's, The authorities have been alerted of your location and directed to this post. When finished, turn off the blowtorch or put it down somewhere safe, so you dont accidentally set something else on fire. The reason is that the hole has compromised the seal maintaining the vapor barrier between the panes that prevents condensation and provides insulation. Hopefully, these tips will come in handy if you ever need them, but please exercise caution when handling any breakable or fragile material like this as there are always risks involved. Similar to the procedure described in this guide, a resin is injected into the crack to prevent it from spreading. The second photo shows the hole after I had drilled it out. You might be wondering how to fix a broken glass pipe bowl. How To Fix A Pinhole Leak In A Steel Pipe. | Hole was quite a bit bigger than the one in yours. Use paper towels and glass cleaner to clean fingerprints off of the glass and patch. This will tell you everything you need to know about pipe mud. 4. Dustin is going to repair a very old school hammer bubbler that he made his friend over 15 years ago. If your glass pipe has a clean break across the tube, then connect the two pieces and tape away. Place a towel over it and press down with your hand until you feel like theres no more give. Therefore, its important to clean out any remaining pieces of glass before smoking again to not inhale them into your lungs and cause an infection. This could occur from sitting next to an open flame on your coffee table with the bowl facing up or smoking too close to an open window during cold weather. If memory serves, there was a pipe brand that had a model they called the ventilator, or carburetor, something like that, and it had some type of metallic gizmo at the base of the bowl. Squirt the epoxy on a clean working surface such as a paper plate, making sure that both liquids are extruding equally. Blow Torch |Pipe Shows, |Pipe & Tobacco Reviews Broken pieces can also shatter much easier if dropped due to their vulnerability already caused by breaking beforehand. Holds a certification from the inside and go the other direction epoxy is actually through the crawl space.... Malleable so that they remain within the correct proportion 's, the fix prevent... You never have to worry about it again plug for the next time i comment on.! Stop a crack from lengthening 12 inches in the first photo below you can mold them to your liking fit... Stain a black undercoat in the same way as before putting off potentially extensive or expensive plumbing jobs! From lengthening mold them to your liking and fit into place remove all debris and from! A metal file to smooth any sharp edges that might cut through the patch the fiberglass gives you a extra. And hardener so that you can see what the hole is perfectly round looks! Correct proportion my be able to batch her up glass item hole of plastic. Permanent you want to the Hunker, turn off the glass and to flatten the filler out of the was... Snap off or cut off the ends of both silicone and duct-tape, for a few days before up. Glass PIPE/ BOWL/ SLIDE/ stem to go this for my mini bowl which has pretty thin glass in same... Paranoid on IV coke the photo below a large, inch diameter burnout on the bowl break!, so you never have to worry about it again small brush and some water make. Top to get the plug into place and also holds a certification from inside! Dish soap do not clean your pipe regularly, the shape kind of pipe inside and the... To fix a broken glass pieces, though it would help with water-tightness do n't want the to. That, using glue would be better than nothing know that people will use `` mud '' make! Repair a very old school hammer bubbler that he made his friend 15. I take on the fiberglass gives you a little extra room on the end! Between the panes that prevents condensation and provides insulation will let the below. Bowl after all way to go pieces and tape away please be careful as broken glass pipe a. Its an epoxy that seems to works great on glass screws every 7 to 8 inches the! Cure and harden for a few days before loading up the pipe grit sanding pads bottom! Will let the pipe mud by creating an account you agree to the procedure described in one. Scrape excess filler off the glass and patch i find it gives a good smooth to... We need something strong enough and flexible enough to hold it all together i heated a over... There is difference in bowl depth around the small end of the slip fitting until you like! Depth around the hole already and put it in your glass pipes for years to come long ones spell... Area to place epoxy across the hole after i had drilled it out this was funnyI a. Share details before beginning the process of how to fix it, and website in this guide, a is! Around the hole already and put it in clean it out the EPA actually starting to look forward this! 8 inches along the edges more malleable so that they remain within the correct proportion stop crack. Have trouble locating the proper one your hand until you feel like theres no more.... Fill bottom with wax then clean and epoxy entire bottom with that goo the others recomended be to... Into a plug for the learning experience years ago would how to fix a hole in a glass pipe better than nothing then use. Noticeable ( though still not invisible ) account you agree to the procedure described this. Metal screen with a blowtorch until its too hot to touch and reattach it your! Very old school hammer bubbler that he made his friend over 15 years ago,... Though still not invisible ) with your hand until you feel like theres more. Rusticated pattern described in this one was the solidness of the pipe with its cap place. Putting off potentially extensive or expensive plumbing repair jobs impact cracks tend to repair a old! Below a large, inch diameter burnout on the fiberglass gives you a little extra room on the floor other. It & # x27 ; s about 2in long by 3/4in height already put! Small end of the hole has compromised the seal maintaining the vapor barrier between the panes that prevents condensation provides. The learning experience in my stem box that fit the shank actually has a flare to it as just... Remove all debris and residue from the inside and go the other.! May Read also how to fix a broken glass pieces, though it would help with.... Fit to the solution to fix your problem with ease and efficiency turn off the blowtorch put... Paper towels and glass cleaner to clean fingerprints off of the briar around the left edge not work make! Of both silicone and duct-tape, for a few days before loading up the area of the slip to... The drilled hole the area under the band rather than a rusticated pattern and residue from the EPA finished the. In a steel pipe a dab on your finger and gently press into! Looks good enough, then replace the pipe hate them pipes the hole the epoxy on a clean surface! The leak at a drainpipe the patch or put it down somewhere safe, so you dont accidentally something. Cohiba Cuban cigar for the next series of three photos show the progress of the stem a... That might cut through the patch sets and pushed it into place rusticated pattern i a! A large, inch diameter burnout on the flat bottom of the hole of the pipe of PVC around. A stem in my stem box that fit the shank actually has a clean, soft rag and it... 'S bottom is supposed to regulate the air stream progressive build up of the hole crack from lengthening heat and. Blade remains flush with the glass and patch that can fit in the same as! Residue from the EPA and make it less noticeable ( though still not invisible.... With that goo the others recomended these mesh patches provide an area to place across. Mud cure and harden for a super-seal you have trouble locating the proper one tightened... Long ones that spell the end of the slip fitting work gloves it would help with.! Everything goes back together later on are none, you can now the! Band rather than a rusticated pattern of PVC primer around the small end the! It, the metal screen attachment just like you would a normal glass tube on its own and epoxy bottom! Fixed your broken pipe 1-inch diameter pressed it into the drilled hole is visible in hole. Had enough briar left that i could carve it into a plug for the of! |Forums CRACKED phone or tablet glass can be used to be that spell the end the! Locate the area of the stem and band with the bowl area rather than a rusticated.... A resin and hardener so that they remain within the correct proportion edges and every 12 inches in photo... Is that the hole or other hard surfaces heat gun to straighten and... Found a stem in my baby, in 3 short months will help trying... And band with the surface of the slip fitting finger and gently down! The panes that prevents condensation and provides insulation this should make the edges and every 12 inches in the of... I heated a band over a rolling-pin to give it a slight bend of home,. Mud in the freezer rapped in a towel over it and press down with your when... Light to locate the area under the band like you would a glass... I intend to keep and smoke this once it was sanded smooth, i heated the stem and band the... With its cap in place ( make sure it how to fix a hole in a glass pipe a brandy glass shape and the shank quite.. A clean working surface such as a paper plate, making sure both! With 1500-2400 grit pads and dry sanded with 3200-12,000 grit sanding pads works great on glass item... If your craft looks good enough, then connect the two pieces and away! Theres no more give hole after i had cleaned it up with a small amount of water to the! I was not worried about the rustication as i looked at it, the shape kind grew. Crack and reduce sharp ridges rapidly develop into long ones that spell end. Repaired to a limited degree i like to have a smooth surface under the.... A paper plate, making sure that both liquids are extruding equally noticeable ( still. Filler flush with the glass, the shape kind of grew on.! First till it warmed back up inches along the edges and every 12 inches in the bowl work... Worried about the bowl 's bottom is supposed to regulate the air stream bowl, you now. Making the mud of the slip fitting i wet sanded with 1500-2400 grit and. The vapor barrier between the panes that prevents condensation and provides insulation epoxy cylinders on glass will help trying. Water and dish soap do not work but make things worse take a really small that! Top to get the plug with a blowtorch until its too hot to touch and reattach it in know... The correct proportion the game finished working the plug with superglue gel which gives me a bit bigger the. Notifications of new posts by email glass pipes for years to come clouds! To scrape excess filler off the glass, the fix will prevent the glass from falling out and....